Wednesday, March 22, 2006

The English Debate Continues

More from the small minded Cross of St. George carriers, to which I will respond as these are reasonable comments (except for one), although, to be honest, this is becoming almost as boring as listening to the Llama Song!

Can't add a comment, but I've written it so if someone who can wants to then
here it is:

Well, I am making your comment public here!

Well you certainly got one thing right - the debate is indeed 'much more complex than that'.

If you had actually taken the trouble to READ what I wrote (in both posts) rather that just picking on something that suited your purpose and twisting it you would know that I never actually said that the debate was anything more than complex.

The English flag doesn't 'belong' to the BNP and neo-fascits, it belongs to
the people of England - these come in every shape, size, colour and political
creed; some are bad people but the vast majority are good and I think your
comment was mean and offensive.

The English flag might not belong to the BNP, but they have certainly hijacked it; and if you had taken the trouble to READ all of what I wrote you will find that I also stated that "I am not saying that everyone who carries the English flag is one of these right wing supporters, far from it". Most English people are quite reasonable people, however, there are the small minority whose sole aim is to cause mischief, and to stir up trouble. And if you think I mean all of you with that comment well that is your prerogative, as I was meaning a small minority of trouble makers within pressure groups in general.

I am an English nationalist but have a degree of sympathy for the Cornish
nationalists - I don't want them to feel smothered in an England they don't
feel part of. I don't know what the answer to the Cornish question is but I try
to keep an open mind - this is sadly something you don't appear to do with
regard to the English.

I hate repeating myself, but if you had been kind enough to READ what I wrote I think that you will find that I have a very open mind about the whole topic, which appears to be more than the comments that have been levelled at me seem to indicate about you people.

Saying 'it will never happen' is offering a prime hostage to fortune. Many
unlikely things have happened in the past, and a reasonable demand by a very large and growing number of franchised people in a democracy is one of the things in this world that is most likely to happen - watch this space my friend, I know I will

READ all of what I wrote and I think that you will find that I have said "I was not saying that changes do not have to be made, what I was saying is that an ‘English Parliament’ will not happen in the way that the CEP want it". I think that most English people, who are prepared to enter into a reasoned argument, would agree that some sort of reform is needed; however trying to enter into a reasoned debate with people who constantly attack those with whom they disagree, and who do this with insults and vulgar remarks, is simply impossible.

Looks like he is from Edningburghg, so a West Britain racist by the looks of

Well this is just laughable - poor spelling - lack of geographical knowledge (Edinburgh is actually on the EAST coast of Scotland) - racist, not even worthy of comment!

This person appears to call himself a Cornishman, well he wants to be
careful that the BNP don't appropriate the Cornish flag. No reason why they
shouldn't. Perhaps someone should suggest this to the BNP.

Oh, this is so boring! READ the words PLEASE! I do not 'appear' to call myself Cornish, I DO call myself Cornish! I was born in Cornwall and lived there for most of my life before moving away in May 2000. I am proud of my heritage and not afraid to say so. As for the rest of this, well it is just nonsense!

I'm not suggesting these organisations are far right, but I am suggesting that this blogger is sugesting they are. I just ignore these particular organisations myself (unless I am making a point as now), as do so many other English people who fly the English flag.

I was not suggesting that organisations like the BNP are far right, I was actually SAYING it, again a failure to READ what I wrote!

This person is typical of the liars who spout off about England, call us
racist while stupidly exposing their own racism as they do so.

Ah, so, a liar as well! Yet another failure to READ the words, at no point did I use the word 'racist' other than to counter the fact that this term had been levelled at me; which in its way could be read that the person who called me a racist was actually being somewhat racist themselves.

I also hope that this goes some way to negating the accusation that I am censoring these people; I have no time for censorship of any kind, but neither do I have time for those who only want to use the freedom of speech to attack and insult those who disagree with them.

For those who are really interested in actually READING what I wrote the whole thing can be found:

Here - here - and here


Blogger The Blind-Winger Jones said...

There's no reasoning with the cross of st george, CEP, English Democrat types. They're all highly motivated and fired-up and largely talk to and affirm each other. They tend to react extremely negatively to being challenged and tend to resort to some pretty ugly accusations and incoherent bluster. They have made precious little, if indeed any, impact on wider English thinking and opinion. English people, like Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Cornish people are generally a fairly moderate and pragmatic bunch, who quite naturally recoil at such ignorance.

Wednesday, March 22, 2006  
Blogger BondBloke said...

I completely agree with you Martyn, and to quote RoadRunner "cyberspace can and clearly does attract its fair share of individuals hell-bent on misinformation, malice and mischief". They are not at all interested in any form of reasoned debate, simply attacking those who they disagree with... I have taken the stnace now that I am going for the broken record techinque and will constantly repeat "READ THE WORDS!".

Wednesday, March 22, 2006  
Blogger Toque said...

You say that the Cross of St George 'flag has become synonymous with these groups'. The groups in question being 'those of the far right who would see England returned to a state where England would be for the English and no one else'.

I'm very familiar with Leith and I might opinion that Leith is synonymous with prostitutes, schemies and drunken brawls. However, that would be a totally unfair stereotype - not totally unfounded, but a cruel stereotype nevertheless.

In writing a post about the CEP and then going on to associate the English flag with the BNP you are attempting to use the technique of 'guilt by association'. I may as well opinion that those that fly the Scottish flag are opposed to 'white settlers' from England, just because I know that there is a small but not insignificant section of the Scottish nation that hold those views.

If you want to criticise the CEP please do so on the merit or demerit of what we have to say and not on the fact that we unashamedly fly our national flag.

I lived in Scotland up until two years ago and I have a lot of respect for Scotland and its people, what I particularly admire is the attempt, at least by the establishment, to inculcate a sense of civic and national pride in Scotland that can be shared by all the people of Scotland regardless of their ethnic, racial or cultural heritage.

That sense of civic nationalism is something that I feel England lacks, or at least there has been little, if any, attempt to promote it.

If you are interested in having a rational debate without mentioning the BNP and the CEP in the same breath then maybe you could read this article on civic nationalism that I wrote and give me a fair critique.

You might also like to read this exchange between Lee Barnes of the BNP and myself to give you some idea of how I feel about the BNP.

There's a whole world of difference between my English nationalism and the nationalism of the BNP. My nationalism is born from a love of my country, and my political nationalism comes from what I see to be an unfair constitutional settlement that discriminates on the basis of nationality; in that it recognises the right to self-determination of Scotland but not England; explicitly gives Scotland, but not England, legal and political recognition; and allows Scottish representatives an undemocratic say in England's affairs without English MPs being allowed to have a say in the concommitant Scottish matters. The BNP only care about 'blood and honour' and everthing else in their manifesto is just filler to give imbeciles the impression that they are supporting a proper political party.

Anyway, patriotism may be the refuge of the scoundrel but that is not to say that patriots are scoundrels. Far from it, the overwhelming majority, are anything but scoundrels. And if you venture down to England during the World Cup you will see the St George's cross fluttering from every place that a flag can be secured.

Your friend James over at the Quaequam Blog also likes to jump in feet first by accusing me of painting the Scots and Welsh as Nazis. I don't know that many Welsh people but having lived in Scotland for so long I can truthfully say that 'some of my best friends are Scots' and I would never equate them to Nazis.

Thursday, March 23, 2006  
Blogger BondBloke said...

Sorry you are too late with the offer of a rational debate I have become totally un utterly bored with the whole thing - you people start out by throwing insults and when someone begins to use your tactics (taking your own words and throwing them back at you) you suddenly want to enter int a rational debate - as I said "sorry you are too late" - I'm off to listen to the Llama Song.

Thursday, March 23, 2006  
Blogger Toque said...

If you can't handle it then you should be more circumspect yourself.

*Hands Bondbloke back his dummy*

Thursday, March 23, 2006  
Blogger BondBloke said...

Yet again you are guilty of NOT READING MY FUCKING WORDS!!!! I said I AM BORED wit you all you are not worth the time and effort, you aqre sad individuals who can't take being treated the same as you treat other people.


And if you don't like that then FUCK OFF!

Thursday, March 23, 2006  

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